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How is Farrow and Ball Estate eggshell from June 2012


(Andy Crichton) #1

There was a lively chat here the back end of 2011 about F&B Estate eggshell not drying. I closed that particular thread so as not to give the wrong impression to new visitors. Hence this new thread.

So please share your experiences of this paint from July 2012 onwards.

If you have genuinely NEVER had a problem, and you have ALWAYS achieved the rock hard quick drying beautiful eggshell finish that can be achieved with this paint - you better clearly explain what you did, especially reference the basecoats.

As a reference point, F&B are absolutely adamant that you MUST use their basecoat, else they will not entertain a complaint.


(Andy Crichton) #3

I am just revising a much-read post about Farrow and Ball paint, the eggshell in particular.

Our man in Dorset, Neil, used F&B estate eggshell again recently on a kitchen and had a terrible time with delayed drying problems. This is the same problem that was discussed in quite some depth towards the end of 2011 and I closed the thread because it hadn’t been mentioned since then.

I was getting quite interested again in revisiting F&B, after all, it would be great for business to throw ourselves headlong into the F&B arena, (their paints generate at least 10 times the public interest that Little Greene do).

So I was genuinely gutted to learn that Neil had used Zinsser Bullseye 123 water based primer and eggshelled over the top and got in trouble. Bullseye is quick drying, is suitable for ALL water based and oil based paint, it has been around for ages, so why the incompatibility with F&B eggshell?

And Jason’s above experience was all good, especially with the Krudkutter Deglosser, but thinking about it, it makes me think that:

1 - where a primer is not required, F&B eggshell will dry as expected, and with floetrol added, is a winner.

But a couple of questions:

2 - where F&B primer is used as the basecoat, F&B eggshell will dry as expected. (but will you get the best finish using their basecoat, and does it solve all problem surfaces?

3 - where an industry leading 3rd party problem-solving primer undercoat is used (to solve a surface problem prior to overpainting), what do you choose to a)make sure that the F&B eggshell dries as expected - and b) make sure the original surface problem is solved properly ?


#4

Hi,
Over the last 3 days I have been using Farrow and Ball eggshell, painting the inside of sash windows.

The six windows I picked to do were new soft wood un-primed. So I was playing about with primers with some very different results.

First window I used the Farrow and Ball primer, ok to use and quick drying times. But the thing I didn’t like about it was when it came down to de-nib it, I found it didn’t rub down very easily and felt a bit on the soft side, it was left over night before I did this.

Second window I used Bin 123+, very nice to use and very quick drying times. Now this one did rub down nicely, again left over night.

Third window was done in Crowns water based primer (PSU) was the slowest in drying times but still dry within the hour(just). This primer was the best to rub down, again left over night.

So then I applied the eggshell with different results.

Over the Farrow and ball primer and the Bin 123+ the eggshell was touch dry in under an hour but it took 24 hrs before I could give it a good rub down (240 paper)

Over the Crown primer, again the eggshell was touch dry within an hour but this time I was able to give it a good rub down (240 paper) the same day.

The end finish on all three windows looked the same, good body and a nice sheen all given three coats of eggshell at customer’s request.

So I really don’t know about this paint, using their own primer it doesn’t seems to me to slow down the drying times but it stay’s softer for longer meaning I was having to leave it over night to rub down between coats.

The weather was sunny and warm with no rain or moisture in the air.


(Andy Crichton) #5

That is a really good review, thanks.

So really, Farrow and Ball estate eggshell and undercoat are quick touch drying but take the old fashioned (oil based days) 16 hours to dry before any rubbing down?

A couple of thoughts come to mind. The 123 is the constant between your kitchen fiasco and the exterior.

The F&B over Bullseye 123 primer gave you the issues with extended drying times on kitchen cabinets, but not this time outside?

So is it feasible that the 123 did not dry “properly” over the kitchen cabinet substrate, thus delaying the drying time of the F&B eggshell?

Or could it be not related to 123 but a moisture issue? The interior environment was more humid than the exterior. I remember Cait saying something about moisture affecting her F&B finishes.

Apart from painting a suana though, or a building site with no windows in winter, I wouldnt expect too much trouble with water based paint drying in a modern home this time of year.

The Crown undercoat sounds OK though !!


#6

The primer was dry and took a light rub down, so I cant think that was the reason behind the F&B not drying.

It was very hot when painting the kitchen and not being able to open any window didn’t help but I can’t remember it being to humid.

I’m just not sure why it happened but it has put me off recommending F&B eggshell.


(Andy Crichton) #7

Here is a cry for help this week from a lady who wasn’t expecting the hassle. My advice was to leave it as long it takes to harden off, and then sand back any imperfections and carry on with the estate eggshell.

[quote]I have had a problem with Farrow and Ball interior eggshell paint taking forever to dry, and I found your forums regarding this paint’s drying times and read them with interest.

I’m an amateur painter but had followed instructions on a DIY site, and the person who wrote the DIY blog had used F&B paint too but didn’t mention any problems with drying time.

I’m painting kitchen cabinet doors which are a beech laminate, and I sanded them down beforehand. I asked the sales assistant in the F&B shop if I had to get their primer and she said 'shhh, don’t tell anyone but no!’ so I used B&Q water-based primer which said it was suitable for any surface, and it had dried thoroughly.

I left it a couple of days before getting round to adding the F&B paint, and I sanded the primer with no problems. I used a small foam roller to apply both layers. After applying the F&B paint, I noticed that it had lots of tiny bubbles on the surface. These have mostly gone away now it is dry(ish) but some have remained.

I left the doors for 48 hours before touching them again, and then I picked a door up with the intention of sanding the bubbles out and doing the second coat of F&B, but some of the paint smudged and left white thumbprints where my hand had been (I am using black paint, Railings, and the undercoat was white)! [/quote]

There was reference to the bubbling in another thread here with pro decorators experiencing the same. Common theme I believe is the non F&B basecoat not compatible with F&B eggshell, for whatever reason.

In theory any brand of adhesion primer would be compatible with the mandatory F&B primer undercoat followed by 2 or 3 eggshell coats, and presumably all would have been well with the world.

Personally I think the store should recompense this lady in view of the completely duff advice she was given, but you know where that would end.

You are an amateur painter? - user error…

Pro painter? - user error…

If they sorted that attitude of theirs out, it would be easier to put up with aggravation.


(andybury) #8

What undecoats are people using with F&B All White eggshell?


(greenpainting) #9

I’ve been using a fair bit of Estate eggshell recently - love the finish. What I put under it depends on the surface. The last job I was painting over existing gloss that had been sanded back. I’m always wary of putting a w/b coating on old o/b paint so in this case I did use the F&B primer.

I also installed new picture rails and those I primed first with BIN followed with 2 x Eggshell. Perfect result.

I’ve also used it over BE123 without any issues even second coating the same day.

The only time I’ve had a serious problem with Estate Eggshell was when I had to paint interior doors in a room that had been plastered a couple of days prior. Cold outside and heating on in the room meant very humid environment. I went in the day after I had put the first coat on (ready primed doors but in other rooms it covered fine) and it was wet and had even run and streaked in some places. I had to scrape it all off and start again. So F&B doesn’t like humidity.


(andybury) #10

Thanks, what would you suggest as an all round undercoat under quick drying topcoats.


(greenpainting) #11

Cor now you’re asking! It depends on what it’s going on a lot of the time. Bare wood, pre painted in o/b or w/b etc. And personal preference I guess.

I always carry BE123 plus with me because it will do for most things but I don’t like the smell much and it isn’t always best for helping the finish coat flow. Bedec primer/undercoat is nice to use and you can go over that with anything.

One thing to remember is to allow the undercoat time to dry before you recoat. A lot of them claim anything from an hour to 4 but it depends on the surface and the conditions so if you try to recoat to soon you can have problems.