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Paint Recommendation Please?


(DavidJ) #1

Hello, I’d like a couple of paint recommendations for these two jobs. First off are the windows:
My thoughts would be Sadolin, but I’m sure more experienced people might have a better idea.

Also where the putty has blown between the frame and glass, can I just use a good frame sealant like Everbuild Universal? Open to ideas here.

Secondly the weatherboard. Customer has done himself previously in Cuprinol Ducksback. Just need something similar with a Matt finish. Sorry I don’t do loads of this kind of surface so I’m not too knowledgeable.


(darlic) #2

Hi looks like a nice project,i can only give you my experience,when i bought my house the surveyor advised to replace or repair windows,i could put my finger thorough them ,where the putty was falling out and the frame was rotten i used marine filler made by plastic padding,one because its easy to sand,and shapes perfect,and can be used on many surfaces,what put me off about using putty was the length off time it takes before it can be over painted 30 days can the drying process be speeded up?Anyway the windows lasted ten more years,when the kitchen window was finished,you couldn’t tell where i had filled and where the putty was,it shapes that well,keep pressing on,good luck.


(DavidJ) #3

Thanks Darlic. The frames are actually fine, it’s just the beadline of cement between the glass and frame that in some places has dried and shrunk. Think I can use marine filler for that? Is it like an upmarket two-pack wood filler?

Interesting you mention putty. Looking at another job last week with “traditional” putty work. Some of it is knackered. I’m tempted to use two-pack wood filler. Says on the tin it’s flexible, but is it really a suitable putty replacement?

Not that I want to use putty. Who has 30 days to wait before painting it, like you say? I believe there a a fair few painters out there who wouldn’t wait this time.


(Andy Crichton) #4

[quote]Quote from DavidJ on June 23, 2014, 07:01

Not that I want to use putty. Who has 30 days to wait before painting it, like you say? I believe there a a fair few painters out there who wouldn’t wait this time. [/quote]

How on earth did we get by before resin repairs and two-packs! Linseed oil putty was the only stuff we had and looking at Georgian windows done right, it worked fine, if you obeyed the rules. But you are right, practicalities get in the way and the temptation is not to wait 30 days.

One of the keys to longevity was as you say, leave it to go hard. On modern casements, there is really very little puttying to do, eg one 12 pane Georgian sash could have as much work as all windows on a modern bungalow, so for many modern homes, there is no phase one and two, all windows are brought forward together, so for putties, that means a drying time of “the weekend” or for some a week, if you dare leave a job for a week to leave the putty to skin over well.

Learning from the speed merchants, you apply undercoat very gingerly so as not to create brush marks on the wet putty.

Another thing that works against leaving putty to cure well on modern casements, is back priming rebates. That is essential, to slow down the drying out process, but that doesn’t help if you want to get on.

Apprentices should know all about linseed oil putty, up to their elbows in sticky goo, working it out on newspaper till it is workable for the boss to use !!!


(DavidJ) #5

Andy, I’m not sure whether I’m getting a roasting for my impatience or you’re sympathising! Bit of both?

My understanding was that painting “wet” putty, or at least putty that isn’t fully dry, just doesn’t work in the long run. Paint doesn’t stick properly, and once painted the putty never dries out either.

What would you use? Do you think two pack really is flexible, even though it sets like plastic?


(Andy Crichton) #6

Hi David

no roasting intended. Written words alone on a page, and all that. Observing that linseed oil putty has worked forever if it is used as intended. Not always suited to modern living where time seems to be running out :slight_smile:

Look at Repair Care Dry Flex in a tube.

The trouble with using say 2 pack as a glazing product is when it fails, it might take the wood with it as you try to remove it. Sorry to bang on, but linseed oil putty is the kindest at maintenance time.


(DavidJ) #7

Hi Andy,

No problem. I don’t have an issue with using it per se, it is just difficult to tell a customer “right, I’m off for a month then while your putty dries!”. Having said that, I do carry some and I guess in this weather it might be a little less than 30 days?

I will look at the Repair Care though.

Can you explain about back priming rebates? Do you mean whether you put putty onto bare or primed wood?

Thanks.


(Russ Pike) #8

David,

Back priming rebates is basically priming bare rebates before puttying up. A couple of little tips I used to use on outsides for speeding up putties: add a pinch of filler to the palms of your hands before rolling/kneading out on newspaper to remove excessive linseed, stops you getting in a mess and helps the putty dry. Also, I run round the putty with a soft brush and the smallest drop of washing up liquid in some water helps the putty skin up quicker!

However, as Andy suggests the RC glazing compound is superb and a much better alternative to putty.


(DavidJ) #9

Thanks Russ.


(darlic) #10

I take it you mean powder filler,Russ how long do you leave to dry,before painting,my teacher,used to add something to the putty some oil i think any idears,he put us,on a window,then practice,that was years ago why haven’t manufactures,come up with a fast drying putty,that’s what decorators want.


(Andy Crichton) #11

Back priming with knotting was favourite, although a less brittle wood primer probably better for longevity. Got any white lead primer, that will do it!


(DavidJ) #12

Erm, not wanting to hijack my own thread or anything :wink: but did anyone have any paint recommendations for my woodwork?! :slight_smile:


(pd67) #13

Why do you want a matt finish on the weather board? Ii would normally use a semi gloss finish.


(DavidJ) #14

Well really because that’s what’s already there, and I’m assuming custs will want similar. They’re not smooth boards so any gloss will just highlight that, no?

What product would you normally use?


(DavidJ) #15

Still after a paint recommendation!


(pd67) #16

It could just be a dulled and weathered satin finish.
I would use Jotun Demidekk Ultimate.


(Andy Crichton) #17

Sorry thought you were sorted. Good shout Fearghas.

What is there now looks like a combination of Sadolin Extra on the window frame and Sadolin Classic on the boarding. If you want the same, go here you can get sample pots sent you to double check you are getting the right colour for your job.

I asked Sadolin to confirm a couple of things.

[quote]Coating over Classic with Classic, with reference to the sheen this will depend on how absorbent the timber is.

Clear Coat can be applied on top of Classic providing the Classic colour is an even shade but the Clear Coat is available in a satin or gloss finish.

(Reference the windows), if the timber is previously coated with Extra Woodstain (oil based) simply clean the timber down with detergent and warm water then rinse clean and allow to dry, the apply the Quick Drying Woodstain (waterborne), if there are any lighter areas of the Extra woodstain then start to apply then start to apply the Quick Drying Woodstain to the lighter areas first to try and match in with the existing woodstain colour before applying 1-2 coats over the whole area.[/quote]

The Sikkens equivalent is Cetol BL 21 plus (waterborne) or Cetol HLS plus (solvent based) for boarding.

Cetol Filter 7 Plus (solvent based) for windows. (These Sikkens products will have a sheen to them up to semi gloss).


(DavidJ) #18

Many thanks Andy and Fearghas.

The windows then I think I’m okay with.

Only real issue is that some appear several shades different, but I’m guessing this is a combination of weathering and being photographed in either sun or shade. I will let customer choose a colour tone and try to even up with coats as best I can.

The boarding might be different. Customer’s hubby previously used Cuprinol Ducksback, which is “wax-enriched to repel water”. Much as I’d love to use some Jotun, this makes me nervous! I’m even wondering how the oil-based classic would react.

It’s not like I can easily wash down rough timber. Would I scrub it with meths?!? Or am I worrying about nothing?

Please bear with me (and reply!) so I can get this stuff straight in my head. Details like this will make me a more confident decorator.


(pd67) #19

Don’t wash boarding with meths. Only use that for degreasing trim interior trim etc.
Also it’s weather boarding unless customer asked you to sand it down then just apply paint unless there is any green algae/lichen growing then I would power wash that or use bleach to get rid of it.

Sometimes we can overthink these things.
The customer has a choices of oil or water based. Water makes for an easier application and dries quicker,. That would be my choice.
Also opaque or translucent. You need these questions answered before you pick your materials.
I use Jotun as it’s the best I can get and that repels water as well.
Keep us posted


(DavidJ) #20

Thanks Fearghas. I’d also prefer water-based. Using some Tikkurila Valtti Ultra at the moment and it’s great stuff. Just concerned that if the Ducksback is water-repellent it may not stick so well, but maybe I am overthinking.

Right, stupid question: I take it by translucent you mean no tint at all? So whatever colour the boards are now would be preserved? I think as they are looking weathered and washed out in places then opaque would be best.